On today’s show I talk to Isa Adney, a resident storyteller at ConvertKit.
Isa came to ConvertKit as our webinar producer. You get to hear the arc of what she was doing before, how she joined the team, and how it morphed into her current role.
Isa is very good at systems. She shares how she uses systems to free up time for creative activities. We also talk about reusing content, and how to create systems and flywheels to make one piece of content work across many platforms.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- How to connect with popular creators you admire
- The best medium for building a relationship with your audience
- Isa’s advice for hosting workshops and webinars
- How Isa utilizes systems to create content across multiple mediums
Links & Resources
- ConvertKit podcasts
- Don Hahn: Brain Storm: Unleashing Your Creative Self
- Kimberly Brooks
- The Nathan Barry Show 053: Kimberly Brooks – Taking Intentional Breaks To Reignite Creativity
- Harlem’s Fashion Row (HFR)
- The Nathan Barry Show 026: Khe Hy – How You Can Do $10,000/Hr Work
- ConvertKit Creator Stories
Isa Adney’s Links
To this day, as I interview creators, they’ll talk about their initial resistance to email, because they were so worried about bothering people. There’s so many psychological things going on when it comes to being a creator and sticking it out long enough.
I’ve always believed that stories are really a gateway into understanding those things. Showing the real ups and downs, so when you’re having a low or you feel like something you’re doing is not working, it reminds you not to give up because that’s normal.
In this episode, I talk to Isa Adney, a resident storyteller at ConvertKit.
That’s not a normal role for tech companies to have, but it’s something that we’ve done because we really want to be a part of the creator community, and really understand the stories and the obstacles that the creators we serve are overcoming.
So, Isa came into ConvertKit as our webinar producer. You get to hear the arc of what she was doing before, how she joined the team, and then how it morphed into the role that she has now. We get into what makes great webinars, systems, and flywheels as a creator.
She’s very, very good at systems, and not as a systems person. She’s not someone who obsesses over that. She is someone who uses systems to be able to free up more time and output for more creative activities. Then we just talk about reusing content, and how you can create systems and flywheels, so when you make one thing, it can really serve the broader team and exist on all these different platforms.
It’s a fun episode. I think you’re going to love both Isa and the stories that she’s telling.
Afterwards, make sure to go ahead and subscribe to the ConvertKit Stories podcast—the creator stories podcast.
One other thing—if you’re watching on video you know this already—but if you only listen on audio, we release a video version of this show. It’s on YouTube. If you just search YouTube for Nathan Barry Show, there’s two channels. There’s one that is purely clips. So, the short one with one to two minute highlights, and the other that’s the full episode.
Video just adds another element. So, if you only listen on audio, go check out the video version on YouTube, and subscribe.
Alright. Let’s dive in.
Isa, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Nathan. I’m happy to be here. This is a podcast about Taylor Swift and Lin Manuel Miranda, correct?
That is correct. The entire thing is actually just a love story to the two of them. So yes, you’ve come to the right place.
Okay. I actually want to start since, you know, you, you brought up Lin Manuel in the first 10 seconds, which is perfect. you have connections to all kinds of interesting creators. Like what that just sparked is. I know when you went to see Hamilton on Broadway, you like got a behind the scenes, you know, tour, of the, the set and everything.
And then, I guess another version of that is, for your birthday, was it last year or two years ago? Something like that. John Musker. Well, I’ll see what he did first. He like drew you, I caricature of yourself and like, you know, it like happy birthday
Isa, had to upon in there and everything.
And so for anyone who doesn’t know who John Musker is, he’s like one of the most famous, people at Disney ever like directed marijuana, little mermaid, Aladdin Hercules, like, and just as incredible animator and creative. And like, how do you know all of these people are,
Great question. the caricature is in my office right here, as well as my signed little mermaid and Milana posters.
And, it’s really cool that you bring that up because that was one of the best days of my life. and, I forget how crazy cool that is. because we’re faced I’m Facebook friends with John Musker now, and I see pictures of all his new adorable grandkids. And I forget that that is. Really, really cool.
And so how I know these people, how this all happened. you know, it really started for me with being a writer. and my first writing journey started in, when I worked at a community college, my first book and my first blog was all about helping community college students. and you know, and I realized later in life that I was a writer and no matter where I had been in life, I probably would have written about it.
But community college was where I started and where I first got inspired. And so that’s where I first started writing. It, started with a blog in December, 2010. And, you know, if I really think about the first window to this world and to meeting all of these incredible creators, it was really, and I had never really thought about until this moment, but it was really a.
Summer series I did for the blog, called first job out of college. And I wanted to interview people and tell stories about how people got their first job out of college in a way that hopefully taught community college students, how to pursue that career path. And my childhood dream was to be a Disney animator.
Cause I know I went on some experience or ride at Disney, probably it was when it was called MGM. And at the time they had a studio there and you could see people drawing, on the, you know, or coloring in my mind as a little kid. And I was like coloring as a job. Awesome. love to, I love to color. I still do to this day.
I cannot draw. I I’m, I’m not interested in drawing so very quickly that dream, was not actually something I wanted to pursue, but, you know, looking back there was something there. there was something there about, art and about creation and about stories, right. That I was drawn to when I was super young and writing a book now about dreams.
So I know like these dreams, that spark young, there’s always something there, even if the exact thing isn’t, you know, what you ended up doing or ended up wanting to do. And so when I decided to interview series, I looked on LinkedIn. LinkedIn has been my best friend for a long time. people who were local, I lived in a.
Lake Mary Florida at the time. And I just decided, like, I wonder if there are any Disney animators, like I’m fascinated by that world. I’m wondering if there are any so PI tune, is his name. He worked on lion king. I found him, he lived here and he worked on a bunch of films and he said, yes. And we met at a little Starbucks in lake Mary, and that was really the first interview in person that I remember, that I think was really the seed for everything I’m doing now.
And through pie tune, you know, I read a book by a producer, Don Hahn, who did lion king and beauty and the beast. And he’s become a very important mentor and storytelling mentor in my life. I read a book on creativity called brainstorm. Highly recommend. And when I saw you worked on lion king, I was just like, Hey, pie, tune.
Do you know this guy? Would you like introduce me? And he did. And then Don, you know, introduced me to John. And, you know, once you get into any creative world, if you really genuinely admire it and care about it and build trust with at least one person, people will really, really let you in, if you do a good job, you know, in your initial connection.
Yeah, that’s amazing. So step one is to search Disney animators near me. I love it because you’re going in and finding something that you really care about. And then, the blog gives you an angle of like, it’s not just the, Hey, let me pick your brain conversation. And people are like, what is this about?
You know, but if you’re actually saying, you know, I’m a student and I’m writing about this, or I’ve started a blog and I’m in pursuit of this thing, would you be willing to sit down and talk to. and then also the local connection, right?
So one, you have a purpose, you know, and, and you’re, you’re on a mission to learn and accomplish something.
And so people are like, okay, I want to help someone who’s on a mission whose life has a purpose and then to, oh, you’re local. Okay. Yeah. Like I’ll help someone local, you know? And then, probably the, like the student angle helps a lot too. Everyone wants to help students. And so, in that way, you know, you can get really specific about who you’re trying to reach.
And I guess the, the last thing there is that you, weren’t saying like, how do I meet famous people? You know, like that, cause you could cast such a wide umbrella and you’re like, no, no, I want to meet Disney animators, you know? And then we can branch out to storytellers from there and like, and I can, but starting hyper-specific.
Is there anything else in the, like if someone was, Going to try to replicate that and saying like, okay, I want to, you know, connect with, these creators who like, are my idols. Is there anything else in that process that, that we missed that you’d recommend?
Yeah, I think, you know, obviously being a student or being young, you know, can really help. I wasn’t a student when I first reached out to paitoon, but I was early professional. It was my first job out of college, you know? So that definitely helps.
I’m 34 going to be 35. Now that doesn’t work anymore. And so for anyone who was not a student or really young, I think what the next thing is, what you said, anything like the mission. If you’re creating something where you have a mission that you really care about and you’re reaching out to that person because of that mission, that alone, can make a huge difference.
So I think that’s number one. And then number two, this has always been something that is really important to me. And it means there’s certain people I’ve actually had like an opportunity to reach out to, or to even interview. And I didn’t because this wasn’t here. And for me, that’s a genuine appreciation for the work that they do.
I remember once for my book, I reached out to a PR person and they’re the person I wanted to interview wasn’t available, but they gave me like three other kind of celebrities that I could choose from. And I actually decided not to, because none of them did work that I truly appreciated and that I truly admired.
And especially because I’m not famous or have like a giant platform to me, what I can offer them. Is that genuine appreciation is that insight into their art and what I can pull out of it when I tell their story and show the world how beautiful what they’re making is and help them learn something from how they got there.
So I think if you’re looking for people who. You actually truly, truly you read their book, you saw their thing. You, you really saw something in it. You can’t fake that. And people will know when you’re faking that. and I think, you know, people respond to it, not everybody, but the right people, they just, they do.
They respond to it and I’ve become really good friends with almost everyone I’ve interviewed. And I think that’s because it starts from that place. And usually I have found when you connect with someone. You usually have a lot in common. There’s usually something there that you’re reading into their work that connects with something deep with you and it ends up creating a friendship.
And so for me, that’s been huge. And then when it comes to, if it’s someone who’s really unreachable, you know, that can be really hard and you can’t always start there, but those introductions help, you know, and you don’t want to just connect with someone who, you know, is connected with them to get to them.
That’s gross. but usually, you know, look around because often I’ve found that if there’s someone who’s really visible, that I really admire. If you look at who’s working with them, you’re gonna find other people who you admire just as much, and you actually have a chance at access because. Super busy with publicity, you know, or they’re not, a celebrity in that way.
And so they’re also more open sometimes to talking or to being featured on a podcast or, in a story because that’s not something they’re often asked to do, and sometimes that can open doors, but you never want to do that with that goal in mind. Cause that would also be gross and they, you know, people would read into that as well.
Right. I think something else is that you’re often reaching out to, people who are a little bit more behind the scenes. Like you have to be a fan to know who they are. Right. And so if we’re, and like the director of movies, like obviously a really big name in that space, but people are going to know, like for a movie like marijuana, they’re going to know the main, you know, cast, they’re going to know Dwayne Johnson.
Right. And then as they think about Maui or something like that. Right. And so they’re going to be less thinking about who the animator was, who the director was or that kind of thing. And so, it’s just interesting of, of reaching out to the people who are a little more behind the scenes with their craft, but just as much of a role in creating the, you know, the
Exactly. Exactly. And also, you know, you never know what can happen on Twitter, with people. I think when I think about some of the people like who are the really big or bigger people who I didn’t have like another connection to, and, and I didn’t necessarily reach out initially. two of the big ones for me were Zach Knighton, who was the lead character on my.
Calm happy endings. He’s now on Magnum PI. And then I’m Andrew freed, who technically is in more the behind the scenes. but he heads up all of boardwalk pictures, which did chef’s table and cheer, and so many films on Netflix that I absolutely adore. And those were people that I would have said, you know, definitely felt out of reach, not like I could just directly be like, Hey, wanna, can I interview you for my blog?
But how’s that night and happened is I was watching an episode as I do. And he had said, saw a joke about Alexander Hamilton, trying to cover up his Alex tattoo from his ex fiance. And this is an older show. So I tweeted that like, his character, Dave. I was very appreciative and it was like ahead of the times with his Hamilton reference and he wiped that he followed me back.
And so when people follow you back, that’s usually what I’m like, okay. Now I’m going to message him and tell him. And I was already a huge fans, especially of this particular scene in the pilot, you know, which I referenced and, and asked him if he would be willing to interview. And, he could have easily said no.
And for whatever reason, he said yes. And we met in person in LA and, it was right before Magnum PI four. He got that job. So he was like, in-between jobs kind of like, I don’t know what’s going to happen next. It was such a cool moment. And we’ve stayed really, really good friends. And, and then Andrew fried, I, when I did my first film, I S.
Tagged him and said like, this man is why I got behind a camera and that’s true. and I’m, we’ll go into all the reasons why, but that’s really true. And so eventually he followed me back and then when I was going to be near a studio, I made the ask and he said, yes. So I think, you know, looking at those people, who’ve really impacted you.
You, you never know.
Yeah, that’s good. And I, I haven’t find, I was actually just having this conversation, in the ConvertKit slack, with the team this morning about reaching someone often they’re really big on some platforms and not on others. And so, like the creator we were talking about had like millions of followers on TikTok, hundreds of thousands on Instagram and like 3000 on Twitter, but they were actively using Twitter.
And so you could tell they, they use each one for a different thing. And so that was a case where I was like, well, if I was going to reach out to that creator, I would do it on Twitter where, you know, there’s so much less noise there, maybe more of a personality on TikTok and more of just themselves, you know, on, on Twitter.
And so finding that place where, you can follow their work, you know, message them exactly what you’re saying of like. The little things that demonstrate that you’re a real fan. and then you’re right. When you get that follow back. my biggest Follow of the month of January as a fed ground, my Twitter audience is Ryan Reynolds.
So excited about that.
So I’m like, who knows, maybe there’s a, you know, maybe we’re going to interview him for something. Eventually I, you want me to follow? It’s like a thousand people.
Oh, I looked, I was like,
Look at, and you’re like, oh, he probably follows like everybody, you know? And they’re like, oh, oh, okay. He didn’t respond to my DM though.
So we’ll see
That’s okay. You never know it’s going to
Always the long game. Okay. So, when you started, like how long have we worked together now?
Four and a half years, almost five. It’ll be five this year.
Yeah. So when you came and joined ConvertKit, it was for our webinar producer role. and so you were, you had your whole background as a writer, but we actually knew you getting into, like television and on-screen type stuff. and, and so how did that come together of you finding the role at ConvertKit and then, and then joining the team?
In community college, I was asked to be in a commercial. It was the first time I was really on camera and the guy was a producer. He did lots of, Orlando things, Disney things. And I was just being as myself, being a student, you know, and he was like, you’re really good.
You know, and I am a type a person. So I was like, oh cool. You know, I’m like really good at this thing. That’s exciting. and I always did goofy camera stuff with my brother, my whole life, but I did not think anything of it. Oh gosh, that’s bad. but I, you know, sort of like, you know, had that encouragement.
And then once I wrote my first book, I got a consulting job with this big, publishing company. And we started doing video series. Whole campaign ideas, just how my brain works. Storytelling has always been part of what I do, you know? And so I had the story idea and they wanted me, you know, people usually ask me to be in front of the camera.
I was rarely, you know, asking to be, but I enjoyed it and people really responded well. It felt like a way I could tell a story. So I worked in, I did a TV show for four years and of course, and I started a YouTube channel, you know, as part of my community college blog. So I did lots of work there and, really loved it.
And then I had this big transition where I was ready to move away from. Community college education world. I felt like that season of my life was ending and I wanted to move into something new and I didn’t know what that was. And it was a really scary time. I was working on the book that I’m turning into my publisher this June.
So that was eight years ago and working on this for a long time. So I knew writing was something I was going to be doing, but I, you know, wasn’t under the assumption that like, oh, I’m just going to be a full-time author. Like that just didn’t enter my mind. Cause it just didn’t seem like something you could do that you hear in the world.
Right. So yeah, Nicholas barks or, you know, there’s like. Authors and people say are doing it. So like my mind just wasn’t going there. I was like, I’m going to write, I definitely want to be a writer. I knew whole other story, but like I knew I didn’t want to move to New York and work as an assistant for five years at a magazine.
I could also sense that like, that world was changing too. I don’t even know if the job I’d want would be there by the time I could get it. So I just didn’t know what to do. My husband and I moved to San Diego. I got a job at a gym. I don’t know if we’ve talked too much about this, Nathan. but I worked at a fitness center doing sales, like starting a brand new one in Solana beach, California.
And I just was trying out like that whole day job artists thing, you know, like, okay, I’m going to be an artist with like a day job, like after us, who, you know, work at a coffee shop and then go on additions. Let me try that. And I did that for about nine months and I loved the people there, but I just like, I couldn’t, it didn’t work for me.
Because for me, like I wanted to. So already I was training people. I got really into the software. I got to be the webinar person. I would go on all the big corporate webinars and then train everyone on the software. And I loved it. And shocker, I started writing our email newsletter and I started telling stories about people who had health goals and then achieved them.
I interviewed them wrote stories. So I realized like I wanted to keep growing. And I was like, well, I don’t really want like a gym fitness center is not like my career path, but I can’t turn this off. So it was kinda like, you know, I, I need to shift gears. I think I want to get a job in a place where I do want to grow, where it really fits more, who I am.
And so. I was living in San Diego. I looked at jobs in San Diego and I looked for jobs remotely. And I, my mentor, Don Hahn is a producer. And so the title of the job being webinar producer was what really first caught my attention. I was like, oh cool. You know, I, I liked the idea of being a producer and then, you know, I, you know, obviously read more into it and was just thought the job sounded so great.
I had obviously done a lot of training and teaching and being on TVs. And I was a blogger, for many years, so that all and a creator myself. So. That all really connected with me, but, what really, really drew me to it. Nathan, and I don’t think you’re fishing for this answer. I know you’re not even know if I’ve ever told you this, but other people this, but it was you, you know, I was nervous about like tech company, tech bros.
I don’t know if this would be a world for me, I’d come from this very like, you know, education world, very diverse world. And I wasn’t, I, you know, the little I knew was, not for me. And so I was like, well, let me, let me learn more about it though, because I’ve just, there’s something cool here. And I loved the website and I loved everything I was reading.
And then I listened to a couple of podcasts where you were on them. And I watched a craft and car. This all is coming full circle from where, how I started this as I was just making a joke about Lynn and Taylor, but they’re a big part of my life and our, our friendship. but you came out to a Taylor swift song, craft and commerce, and I was just like, okay, this guy is cool.
I like him. And it wasn’t like ironic. You were like, you liked this. I was like, okay, that’s cool. But, but really it was who you were as a person, the story behind ConvertKit, hearing you talk about how your decision to go all in on it when you were, you know, in your own season of life where you’re trying to figure out what to do next.
And I, that was it for me. I was like, oh my gosh, yes, I really, really want to work here. and for my interview, we had to, I had to like record a video, teaching someone how to set up a blog. And I just remembered the literally I. Imagery I used was Hamilton related and I know the video had like a Hamilton vibe.
So there, there you go.
That’s amazing. Yeah. So you came on and to go over, producing all of our webinars, which I was producing them before or hosting them or, or whatever. I didn’t do all of them. Darrell who was leading our growth team at the time would teach some of them. And we’d kind of have a, a cast of characters, but we needed someone to run it full time and really level that up because.
Like, okay. How can we scale this business quickly? do you remember how many webinars you did for ConvertKit
I should really, I should really go back and count, but I mean hundreds? for sure. Oh man,
Because there were times that you were doing four or more a week. Like there, I remember it probably averaged out to like 15 to 20 a month, but I think there was some really crazy weeks in there. I remember you talking about like, okay, I like I’ve done six this week or seven this week, and I’m going to like,
Go into a cave two in one day once. Oh, that was, that was crazy because the webinar’s like, I, you know, it’s funny because in zoom, I don’t know if other people have noticed this, but you know, a lot of times in zoom people will be like, I can’t read the chat, you know, they’ll do their presentation, like, but I can’t look at the chat.
And I think about angel too, cause I’m sure she feels the same way. Our webinar producer now is fabulous. I. Okay. So when you do webinar, you’re looking at the chat. it is this whole other level of being on because you are presenting and you’re really wanting to interact with everyone there. And I still remember the feeling of like hitting live and my brain kind of going like, boom.
And I was like, I had two brains and I could present at the same time, like genuinely and be reading a chat. And sometimes there was that third brain of like also working on some technical difficulty without showing it. so, and, and what was crazy? It’s still crazy to me to this day. Cause webinars would always be scheduled for an hour, but they would often go to like 90 minutes and we would, we would finish our part within the hour so people could go, the people are just so into it and we would have such a good time.
And so it would be like the most intense hour and a half. Of my life, but so enjoyable. I had, I still have, I haven’t let go of it. I have like a webinar playlist on my phone still that I listened to before everyone. And it was just such a, it was such an experience it’s such a high and, quite quite the zone, but yes, doing when you’re doing a couple of those in that zone.
Whew. He got to, you have to balance with a lots of alone.
Yeah, exactly what you’re saying of like the multiple tracks going at once, because you get to the point where, you know, the material so well, right. There’s one track, that’s delivering the material and then there’s that second check. It’s like, okay, this, this AB thing, something is going wrong and I’m fixing it.
And then the third track of like, oh, what’s the audience saying, okay, what are they engaged with? You know? Yep. This is resonating. And. It’s wild. It’s, it’s quite a skill I never got to your level on it. And I’m very thankful that you took it over because, yeah, it, it was a thing, but it drove so much growth for the business.
Like hundreds of thousands of dollars of monthly recurring revenue from these creators who were like, not just getting a pitch on convergent, but really getting a lesson on how do you grow your audience, how you use the tool, you know? Cause it was very, And they still are the webinars the angel is, doing now. you know, they’re very educational, like much more. I think when people hear webinar, they probably, if they’re in the industry, they tend to think of a pitch and really ours are much more of workshops of like you walk away from you know, the 60 or 90, 90 minute class feeling like you’ve learned, learned really a lot.
And we call them workshops now, too. and, I think something that’s really powerful for anyone thinking about video in their business is, just how much people feel connected.
To you and, you know, really, really see you differently when you’re on camera. I mean, I’ve seen it from both directions. So, you know, in one direction we have this creator who is she’s in LA. She’s very well connected in Hollywood. Her husband’s very famous and she thinks I’m like, like she’ll talk to me and about me and with me, I’m like, I’m on that level.
And I just laugh. I’m like, oh, I’m at the bottom of your list. but she’s spent so much time with me on camera. There’s something about the camera that creates that magic. That is really, really cool. And I’ve noticed it on the other end because I’ve started watching vlogs in the last few years. I really was late to that train and there’s all these Disney bloggers and, you know, they might have.
300 subscribers on their YouTube channel. They’re not big, but like, I’ll see it in the park. And I’ll like, get the same similar feelings that I got. Like when I saw the mammo Miranda, I’m like, this is wild. What, you know, the camera is a pretty crazy in that way, but I think it’s also a really good reason to think about, you know, adding video.
It’s very scary for people, but, you know, they’d be surprised like, well, how that can deepen your connection with
Yeah. the crater you’re talking about, you’re referring to Kimberly Brooks or is it someone else? Okay. Maybe she’s been on the podcast. I actually, she sent me her, her book, which the new oil painting, which is really good. My background, you know, I think a sound, I was listening to it since this is my podcast, is in like, you know, writing and design and I mean, it won’t show up on the video, but like her design of everything in the book.
It’s so good.
It’s so good. She’s amazing.
Yeah. Love her so much. Okay. So I think there’s a lot of people will get into storytelling more in a second, but, a lot of people who are listening who might be considering webinars or workshops, and you’ve done so many of them, I think there are not that many people out there.
Like you’re probably in the top 100 people for a quantity of, of, workshops taught, you know, like in our industry. what advice would you have for someone who’s saying, okay, I think I’m going to do workshops. You know, how do I make them a good, what should my process be?
Any of those things.
Yeah. I think number one would be watch as many workshops as you can and study them, study your own reaction. What do you like, what do you hate?
What, do you think is working what you think is not working? you know, I just did this for my book where I’m been working. I’ve been really struggling with the introduction and I read 12 introductions and I did this. What D what is the, I looked at their format. I looked at what I liked, what I didn’t like, and it was the best thing I’ve ever done.
And I did the same thing with webinars and I constantly did it. and so I think you can learn both from a good and a bad webinar. and from all different industries anywhere you see anyone doing some kind of live training, watch it, or watch recordings, and figure out what. And apply that to what you’re doing.
I think number two is also, don’t be afraid to find your own style and really be, really be yourself. I think people really connect with that. They really appreciate that. and I think thinking through also your sales strategy and what is aligned with the business goals, but also, you know, what feels right for your brand?
You know, one thing I loved about the conversate webinars when I came on was. I would start by saying, you know, everything you’re going to learn in this workshop. Like you can use no matter what email service or you know, that you’re using. And I thought that was so cool when I first came on, I was like, oh wow.
It just gave me a sigh of relief. And you could feel that doing webinars in the future that it gave everyone a sigh of relief. It, it became more genuine interaction. It was like, yeah. You know, obviously they know I work at ConvertKit and I tell them there’s going to be things at the end or really free things.
Cause that’s all we ever did. That was also really cool, and free gifts and things, but it, it really, really created a nice relationship and it was about adding value. And I felt really lucky to work for a place that, you know, believed in that and believed in we’re going to help creators. We actually had this greater mission than just make as much money as you possibly can.
Now that revenue isn’t incredibly important, because it helps us further our mission, but it wasn’t money over me. You know, and that you could feel that. And I think people could feel that. And I think that’s why our workshops were so successful. So I think also finding that, but I’ve also been on great workshops that were about selling a thousand dollar thing, and I seen that done beautifully.
So I think that’s where it also helps to look at what you’re trying to do. Look at examples. And, and also, you know, you’ve just got to do them and do them over and over. And that’s where the best. Best learning happens. and, and eventually you get like this rhythm and it just becomes about serving people.
And I still see the chat. Like I write stories now, and I just love that I had two years, like in this chat, cause to me like, I’ll go like this. Like it’s alive to me. I can feel those graders, their questions, their hopes, their what discouraged them. And when I’m interviewing with another creator for a story or for a film, I still see that chat.
And I am looking for them to say things that I know would make the chat go crazy, you know? Cause that was like my first real connection to creator. So I think that’s also a really great benefit. Something to look out for when you’re doing workshops, whether you have 12 people at your first workshop or you have, you know, hundreds or thousands, that is such a beautiful way to connect with your ideal customers and learn from them and even build other content from what you see from that community.
Yeah. Yeah. That’s so good. Like having that hands-on connection to the journey that each creator is trying to go through, you know, cause you’re catching them at the point where they have 10 subscribers or zero or they’re at a hundred and trying to get to 500. Right. Because so much of our content was around.
How do you grow your audience that I remember we would always ask how many subscribers do you have? You know, and the chat would just go crazy, you know, zero, 10, a hundred, 500, you know, and just like flying by because there’s hundreds or thousands of people on this webinar. and just that little insight, because I think we pay attention to the creators who have already made it, you know, they’re the YouTube channels, the podcasts, the newsletters that we follow, right.
You come across. Statistically, you’re more likely to come across someone who has a hundred thousand followers you’re going to come up, you know, then someone who is just getting started, right, because only a hundred people know that they are actually doing this creative thing.
And so the workshops were this, this lens into the people who really needed our help the most.
And that was really cool. So there’s so many great stories in there. I want to transition to talking about stories because, when was it, was it two years ago? Three years ago. When did you transition from webinars to
Full-time two and a half years ago? It was about, it was summer of, whatever that summer two and a half years ago.
Was the vision for, this new role? Because it’s not something that exists normally, right? Like storytellers exist, in the form of writers and all of that. Major film studios, and then like webinar producer is a relatively new role in like software tech, but say the last like five to eight years, like, that kind of thing, but then the storyteller role, isn’t something that exists.
So like, what was your initial vision for it?
And also we, yeah, let’s, let’s talk about that. And then I want to hear about your process of pitching it to, to me and to others. If you’re like, we’re going to go for
Yes, I, yeah, that’s a good story too.
So initial vision where I had seen a lot, I shouldn’t say a lot, but I’d seen a couple of jobs of people who were like customer storytellers and they weren’t, I don’t think storyteller was in the name, but that’s just how I remember it. but I saw these jobs where people were in tech or there, their whole job was to tell customer stories and probably more in the line of use cases, writing case studies and things, but it piqued my interest.
I was like, oh, that’s interesting. There is a job where people are telling stories. And, you know, by this time I had been running my own storytelling blog and still working on my own profile base book, right. Interviewed 120 people for many years. Right. I was, you know, doing webinars and then on days off or a time.
I would take a train to LA and go interview someone and tell their story for, for my blog, because that was something I’m just wildly passionate about. I just love to do, so, so, so much. I love writing stories. And, when I stopped for my book, I’d realized I didn’t want to stop my, I love the profile medium.
So I was thinking about, okay, how, how could we put those two things together? And so my real vision was especially in line with our mission of serving creators was what if, instead of telling like, A pure case study of here’s how this creator got this many subscribers, and that’s why I love those. And we need those and we have those, but I thought, you know, what if we took what rolling stone does and Vogue does when they have a cover story and they tell someone’s story in a way where you feel like you get to meet that person, you understand who they are, you understand their mindset and the other things that help them be who they are today.
What if we did that for creators this world, that people are still learning about, you know, Nathan you’re, you’re an early adopter and in some ways I am too. I never think of myself as, but, you know, I would sort of log into 2010. but you know, for us lately I’ve been creator, duh, but for most of the world, we’re just seeing the mass media being like, wow, the creator had gone to me.
And so it’s still, it’s still new now. It was definitely, still felt very new two and a half years ago because the mass media, certainly wasn’t talking about craters and I thought, you know, What, if we elevated creators in this way and gave the creators we’re seeing is doing amazing things, the same treatment as rolling stone, invoke, let’s tell their profiles.
Let’s tell their stories because what I was finding, well, I think there’s a ton to learn from a case study, especially when you think of the chat in those, those creators who are working towards things, yes. They needed to know how to use the software. Yes. They need to know how to grow. That’s what we talked about.
But, you know, you mentioned when we’d ask them, like, how many subscribers do you have? And there would always be this, these people are like zero Manoa or like three, so sad or it’s just my mom and we’d have this whole pep talk of like, no, like you’re doing it. and helping people reframe their mindset.
And there were so much of that. I mean, still to this day, I, as I interview creators, they’ll talk about their resistance to email initially, because they were so worried about bothering people. and, and. There’s just so many psychological things going on when it comes to being a creator and sticking it out long enough.
And there’s a lot of mindset stuff. and I I’ve always believed that stories are really a gateway into understanding those things and maybe giving you some tools to rethink, how you’re thinking about things. Also just showing like the real ups and downs so that when you’re having a low or you feel like something you’re doing is not working as always happens in anything we pursue.
It reminds you not to give up and that that’s normal. I am a woman of color. I have dealt with a lot of imposter syndrome and I get discouraged. Very easily. It’s such a quick thing between this. Isn’t going well to like, oh, it must be me. I must not be doing a good job at, and it’s very deeply rooted.
And for me, stories were always what picked me back up. Always reminded me that, oh, this is normal. Oh, look, they’ve been here too. This is a sign of I’m doing it. Not assign that I’m, you know, actually failing, in, in the bigger, broader sense. And so I thought it could really serve creators in that part of their journey.
Keep them going longer. keep them creating long enough to get where they want to go, because it does take a long time. and that’s can be really hard. And so I wanted the stories to serve creators that way. And also enhance the ConvertKit brand and show people. You know, we always talked about creators being the heroes of our brands, And we had done these projects, like I’m a blogger, the book and the documentary series, which I was always incredibly inspired by.
So I thought, why not bake this into what we’re always doing? And, and also, you know, elevate those creators and show them in the way show other people, help other people see them the way we see them. and one of my favorite stories is, brand, a Stan y’all. And I, did a story about her. And then by the time it came out, she had also been invoke. And I just, that was just so cool because those kinds of feature stories are what first inspired me
For everyone listening, give like the high level of who brand is Daniel is, and some of the things she’s done,
Oh my gosh. Well, she, is a founder of Harlem’s fashion row and she, you know, 14 maybe years ago now, maybe 15. you know, she started it and she is someone who definitely worked over the long haul.
She saw that there were not enough people of color represented in the fashion industry, especially designers of color. And so she went on talk about mission. She went on a mission to change that. And, she did and she stuck it out for a really, really, really long time. she also worked with LeBron James and designed a shoe and she’s been someone who I still follow on Instagram and inspires me so so much.
And that was a story that I was changed by. And, and I often am by every single, every single one. which is, I think the first time I’m not, that would be, you know, the time I’m like, oh, is this still what we should be doing? Is this still helpful? and so I’m always that barometer is like, how do I feel after an interview?
How do I feel after I’ve written a story so far two and a half years? I mean, I literally could tell you all about how the one I wrote yesterday. Shifted my thinking and inspired me. And, and that that’s certainly what keeps me going and what I hope is translating to people who are reading and, and listening and watching because that media has spread now.
Yeah. it’s amazing. And just the amount that we’ve produced, over that period of time, like so many incredible stories and we just ended up with this deep connection to our customer base. Like I think of KCI from rad reads who, he’s been on this podcast, so you can go back and listen to that episode, but.
He, I mean, he’s a diehard ConvertKit fan. but also not only because he’s invested so much in, convert yet as far as like his audience and the community’s built, but then also we’ve invested in him in the way that we’ve, we tell his story and we’ve taught to workshops with him. and then we’ve made a whole film, you know, about him and like his story and, and, so it just results in this really deep connection with everyone that we work
Yes, absolutely. Henry to get B roll Henry is our filmmaker. four K story ended up going to Kay’s parents, I think apartment in New York and had dinner with them and just had this whole bonding experience. So, especially with films, you know, we spent three full days with them.
You really form a really, really special bond. and, it’s one of my favorite things about my.
Yeah. Okay. So before we dive into the whole production process and, and all of that, what was the, the experience of, of pitching me and the rest of the leadership at ConvertKit of like, Hey, I want to stop doing webinars. We just hired someone else for webinars. I want to tell stories.
Yeah. What was scary? And I really honestly didn’t, I mean, I was really unsure. I really didn’t think it was going to happen, honestly. I, especially, because at the time we had a 50 person rule right. Where we were all like, we’re going to cap hiring at 50. And so I was just like, there, you know, this is a software company.
They don’t need a storyteller. If we’re only tying 50 people. storyteller is not what we need. We’re going to need another engineer. Right. You know, that was my, again, imposter syndrome really coming out. But I, I really discounted myself, right away. I actually had some encouragement from someone else who was like, no, you should try.
You know, you should just try. And so, so thankful to that person. and truly, honestly, and I think, you know, this Nathan. It’s only something I’ve just started really talking about. Cause I’ve just starting to come out of. It’s hard to tell a story when you’re in the middle of a story.
But I, you know, frankly just had a really traumatic event happen in my family health life that is still ongoing and it was really, really intense and it was my first real trauma that I’ve ever been through. And I didn’t know any better. It to like take time, you know, I just had no idea. I had a webinar the next day and it was with a big affiliate and anyone that convert, if they had known would have been like, oh my gosh, take all the time you need, we have bereavement leave.
Somebody would have been so supportive, but I didn’t even think to ask. I didn’t even think, you know, it was just, this is important. And when you’re in trauma, you’re just not even thinking straight. So I did webinars. I was smiling and doing my thing when I was just really broken inside because of some really awful things that had happened.
And so I kind of did some damage to myself and to the point where then all of a sudden I couldn’t be on camera anymore. I just couldn’t. And so in some ways that breaking point helped cause I was like, well, I’ve got to do something else. What else do I want to do this? Is it, why don’t I just try, because I don’t want to leave ConvertKit.
This is the best company ever. And so, that gave me the courage and I had actually written. I had, I know I had been thinking about this beforehand, cause I wrote, Temp story, mid may months ago and I’d showed it to a director and I think they had said like, oh, that’s cool. But it just, you know, there was just so much going on, you know?
And, so I had set some stage, even though I don’t think I’ve thought about that. And at the time I’m just now remembering that. but yeah, it was scary, but I had encouragement and it wasn’t as scary in the sense that I, you know, I felt really a lot of support from my manager at the time. And, and I knew it wasn’t, you know, it helped that it wasn’t like, it was completely out of the blue.
We had done a book, we had done a documentary series. so that certainly helped. but I, I didn’t know which way it was going to go. It was real scary. And I was really excited, that. that vision was supported. And I think my, it helped that my manager had done a lot as customer storytelling in his previous role.
So he really believed in it and he got it initially. so I don’t know what he said, but I’m grateful for that.
Yeah, for sure. So that was a whole thing. We’d done storytelling as one-off projects before, right. We, as you mentioned, we’d produced the I’m a blogger book, and the, the documentary series to go with it, but really what you did was turn storytelling from a project into a system or a flywheel that’s ongoing. So what does that look like? You know, as we’re taking a creator where we want to tell your story, it shows up in all these different places in ConvertKit and, there’s a lot of by-product products, but I just love to hear, kind of start to finish up what that process is.
Yeah, I am, I am a systems flywheel master, I have to say.
And so I love doing that. I had done it with webinars and you know, this repeatable system. And so I really applied the same philosophy to stories and, you know, it really started with that first story, that first interview, Tanya, and, you know, back then pre 2020, I like went, did some creator stories in person, which was really incredible.
And so she was a food blogger and we cooked in her kitchen and I tasted her food and that was really incredible. And so, with every step from asking her for the interview, then, okay, we need to get a story release form, working with our lawyer. And so for me, it’s all about doing that first one. And logging every single step.
I have a chart and so that the second one I do, I’m just repeating those steps. And when I come against something that needs to change, I change it in a way that will change it for all the future ones and sort of this, you know, system that I have. And so it got refined over and over, with each story, the first story was just written and, you know, then I really, you know, we had some photography in the project, right.
The book, and I had been using just photography. They were giving me, but I really saw an opportunity will have, you know, Hey, if we had professional photography that we owned, not only would it enhance the story, but we’d have photography then that we can use all across the website, maybe even, you know, we had, now there’s a photo of Cortland when you sign into the app.
And that gives me chills every time I see it. because that was something I was really hopeful for. You know, we had talked about creators being the heroes of our brand. You know, the internet is such a visual medium. So I thought, okay, let’s add photos. And then hiring photographers that became part of the flywheel. And then we decided to do films right away. It just took some time to hire a filmmaker. so we added that to the flywheel, figuring out when to reach out. Do we do a story first? Do we do a film first? And, When 2020 happened, films had to go on pause and we’re like, well, we’re enjoying telling stories and all these different mediums, how do we get another medium out there if we can’t be in person, if we can’t film.
And so, that’s how the podcast came about is I was like, well, what if I read the story? And, we put that on a podcast And, what I really cared about in, I still get so much feedback on this to this day is let’s have a player at the top of the story So someone can just hit play and listen to it while they’re doing something else.
And most, a lot of people I talked to talking about stories like that’s how they read them. That is through listening. And, and I had gotten an idea, frankly, from a course that I was taking, that was a written course, but she also had a player at the top and that’s what I always used.
I love that side of it where it’s like, you come across a story and you’re like, yeah, let me read this. You know what he said, why don’t you read this story to me?
I mean, you just hit play at the top.
I want to do the dishes. You read the story to me. And you’re like, you know, like it’s a little virtual east.
I go, I like, oh, sure. I’ll read the story to you. And so great.
So that’s been, and it’s just this life. I will, I do the same thing every time, but the story is always different and now it’s, you know, a pretty well-oiled machine and, it’s been really great because then we can, up-level other things and find other ways to tell stories and make sure, you know, the stories stories are incorporated in everything that we do.
So that’s been really cool and that’s where the, you know, webinar hosting and things came into play, being able to like perform a story. and a lot of that came from you, Nathan, asking me to. Customer stories at retreats. And often people would come up to me after and be like, oh, that was so great. You need to, you know, I would listen to a podcast on that.
And so I really have our, our teammates to thank for my thinking about that podcast, because I don’t think I would have, you know, or would have taken me longer to go there. had I had not had that feedback.
Yeah. Yeah, that’s really good. And we have a retreat coming up in a few days and so I can’t wait. I want to talk about what stories we’re going to tell. we’ll save that for offline. so I, one quick thing you talked about, you said that you’re a master at systems and flywheels, and, there’s an example of that.
That is so true where I remember I had a retreat, we were in Oceanside, California. And for some reason on the marketing team, why we were trying to get better at Cisco. And, you know, either, Derek, our director of marketing asked you to, or you volunteered or something and be like, oh, well, I’ll show you the system that I use, you know?
And then you just like proceeded to do this whole masterclass on like systems and five wheels. And the whole team is like, Isa, we had no idea. Like, that’s incredible what you have going on and you’re this, isn’t what you said. But like, I imagine, you know, a van like, yeah, well, you didn’t think that happened automatically.
Like, you know, come on and have this all system behind it. So as you’re thinking about someone’s creative process, I think a lot of creators are just like, oh, I write when I’m inspired. I, you know, I, I don’t know whatever us, right. I just show up in the magic happens or that’s how, all of this works.
But I. think the best creators are the ones who have systems and wheels. And so what advice would you give on helping someone identify and build out what their flywheel is for, you know, their craft or whatever they’re trying to create.
Yeah. I think the number one thing is figuring out your motivation and what you want the most and understanding then how the flywheel is going to get you there. So for those artists, artists, like, which I. I’m definitely a type a artist. but I am an artist. I am a creator.
And so what actually motivates me when it comes to flywheels, it is art. you know, Nathan, you and I talk about being homeschooled at times and how, like we, it teaches you early on that, like if you create a system where you do your work in this way, then you have more free time. and so for me now, as, especially as an artist, I need free time to do my art, you know, and I need free time to do that in one sense, but in a work context, I want to do as much art as I can.
I want to tell as many stories as I can. and so for me, that’s the motivating factor. So I think it’s, I think it’s really important to figure that out because a system in itself, unless you’re a systems person, like I’m actually not like a systems person in the sense where like I get excited about.
So, so there are people, you know, probably I can work it. I can think about it, their eyes lighting up and that’s great, but like, that is not me. I, I don’t have any emotional attachment to the system itself. I emotional attachment to what it allows me to do. and you know, I also knew early on that, you know, people who write profiles, I mean, they typically write like, You know, 20 in their career.
And people who work at magazines, they don’t write that many. And so I knew that, to produce what we needed to produce, like I needed to get really savvy about how we did this. And so, you know, that’s my motivation. So I think it’s about finding out what is yours, like, what do you really care about and how can assist them, help you get there?
Because otherwise you’re just never going to want to create one because it’s easier. And I’m a pretty intuitive person, you know? So it can be easier to kind of just feel like, oh, I do it this way and now it works. but I think, you know, finding out how. What’s motivating. You will really, really help you.
Cause the system will probably help you with a lot of things that are motivating you. But I think making that connection is really important. and then just logging it as you go. I think a lot of people, when they first see, you know, even when they first saw my system, they’re like, oh my gosh. Now I gotta like, stop what I’m doing.
Step back and then make a system. No, I’ve never done that. you’re making it as you go. It’s just a part of it and it, it makes it frees up brain space too. That’s another thing. as an artist, I am so passionate about having brain space, to be creative, to push the boundaries. And I’m not going to have that if I’m constantly feeling stressed about, did I remember this?
Did I remember this? You know, I just taught this to my mom. Who’s just started her YouTube channel. cause she was like, so stressed about, did I do thumbnail? Did I do this? And I’m like, here, here’s how you do this as you’re doing it. And she got it, she’s doing it. And I was so proud.
Yeah. Oh, that’s amazing. Because even just having a checklist of like, if you’re setting up your camera or like, okay, before I record, what do I do? You know, and these things, I put the dog in the other room, I, you know, make sure that the is focused, you know? And, and if you do those things every time then, or in you, like add and tweak the system, then exactly what you’re saying, it frees up so much brain space for like the actual craft of it.
Yes. Putting the dog in the room was on my webinar checklist. And I went through it every single time. And no matter how many webinars I do and you know, I do the same with a packing list anytime I go anywhere. I there’s always something, you know, cause I’ll do a lot of intuitively and then I’ll go to my list and check it all off.
And like there’s always something that I might miss. And so the checklist also gives you a lot of peace of mind. and I think that helps you perform better. It certainly did me.
Yeah. One of the things that stories have done for us, as we go back to that is, I remember a few years ago we were constantly scrambling for, examples to use in our marketing. We didn’t want to be the kind of company where we were like, just here’s the screenshots of our software, you know? And here’s this feature and that feature, we want it to be able to say, this is how it’s being used.
And these are the outcomes that it’s creating and all of that. And I just remember every time as Charlie would be designing our homepage or whatever else, it would be this like, okay, but who can we put there? Do we have a good image? You know, it’d be the headshot from their site, which may not be that good.
And it’s not, like a lifestyle shot. It’s not them in their environment. And now we just have. Massive, repository of, imagery of videos, everything to pull from. And so we we’ve even made, new ads where the videos are. It’s just a collection of, footage from, you know, the stories that we filmed.
So what are some of the deliberate things that you do to set the rest of the team up for success of using stories throughout the rest of their work?
Yeah, I think, you know, that listening has been, you know, the, the most important thing. So just as I, you know, was so, into the chat as a webinar producer and how, in many ways that informed my story, for me, it was just always in, this is a practice I always have is just like this kind of listening of the company. And for us that might look like slack and base camp and reading things and paying attention and meetings. We have the state of the business meeting that I listened to the recording to every Friday and that’s always been something, you know, I always wanted to be super plugged in as webinar producer.
Cause I was like the face of the company and I used to know what was going on. so with stories I just took, I continued that and I was like, I want to know what’s going on. And so that I’m integrating that from the very beginning. So. When I choose someone to do a story about right. It there’s certainly, you know, I have my own sense of what makes a good story and, and whatnot, but that’s not the only thing I’m using when I’m looking, choosing someone I’m thinking about the company as a whole, you know, who we’re, who we want to appeal to, who we want to help, who we want to be for.
Who can I find that’s representing that. And so that’s super, super important from the beginning. and so I think. It’s part of every single step of the process. And then when I’m asking them the, in the interview question, when I’m talking to them about how they’re using a creative marketing platform, how they’re using email landing pages and how they’re selling products, I’m thinking about how can I tell that story in a way that aligns with the story we’re telling as a company, and not in a way.
And authentic, but like truly just seeing what happens and what I get and then telling that that way. So, that’s really important. I never want to be in my own like bubble. for me, it’s always important to tell stories in the context of not just the company, but also the creator community. So I’m always reading up and trying to be as plugged in as possible on what’s going on.
So that the stories are really fitting, that greater context is, and you’re telling stories that happened in the past, right. It’s about how they came to be. So I’m always thinking about what’s relevant in that story today. how can I help a creator and how does it align with, you know, how ConvertKit can help a creator to
Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. And then one of the other things that I think about a lot is the way that we reuse content, you know, that something shows up in so many different places. And so I think we tell listeners all the different places that like when a story comes in, it shows up in written form. And then where else we’ve talked about written in the podcast and I guess a video as well.
What are the other places where these stories come through?
Yes. So, Nathan, this was your brilliant idea. we also share the photos on Unsplash, as a way for people to, you know, use some of these great photos that we’re having taken by these incredible photographers. and obviously we get consent from the photographers and every creator can decide whether they want to share what their photos shared there.
But a lot of them have said, yes. And so, you know, it’s just our way of also giving back to the creator community, sharing this great photography of all these kinds of creations and types of creators that might not have existed in, kind of that kind of photography library before. So that’s another space.
The photos are you. All over the website, and social media, and then, also the content is reused for, Instagram. So that was something I started, I can’t remember exactly when, but I had just been noticing that I was sharing a lot of stuff on my own Instagram stories, like text-based posts, inspirational quotes and things.
And I just thought, you know, these creators are saying these really inspiring things in these stories. What if we put those quotes on our Instagram and maybe people will share them, and they did. And that’s something that, is just reusing content. So every story part of the flywheel I go through and read it again, and I pull out the quotes that I think would work really well and write, a post for that.
And, you know, that started later. So we still have all these stories that like, we haven’t done that yet. And so that’s something that’s in the back of my mind, is, you know, how do we also go back to some of these archive stories and create more, content from the stories that are already there. and then we often make a film about someone who we’ve already done a written story about so far.
That’s not a requisite prerequisite. It just sort of has happened that way. Where when we look at, okay, who do we want to cast for films? What stories do want to tell? There’s just all these people who we already know, have these incredible stories that we think also there’s even more to tell and there’s more to capture visually and.
That that’s also been such a great experience, filming and telling those stories. It’s just another kind of way of telling a story and a real intimate look and, and allowing the creator to, you know, even tell more of their story in their own words and then capture that live photography that Henry does so well.
Yeah, it’s so good. On the photography side, I was just pulling up the stats because I think people would be curious. So we have, cause of the pandemic we haven’t been doing as many photos in person or we didn’t for quite a while now, now we’re kicking that off more. but I’m the 130 photos that we’ve put on Unsplash in the last couple of years they’ve picked up 45 million views and Ben downloaded and used 250,000 times.
I’d see if an idea. And we mentioned Cortland, Courtlands the founder of indie hackers and he just would the photo shoot that we did with them, his story is incredible. but then also the photo shoot that we did, he just has this like moody podcasts set up, you know, and it’s so good. We have him on our login page, but I was going through like creator economy companies like teachable and there’s a bunch of.
They all use Cortland and our photo in like their marketing and everything. and it just cracks me up because it’s like, oh, that’s our photo, you know? And there’s these other ones.
I’m like, I’m just scrolling through the Unsplash collection. And, there’s one of, Austin, who’s this amazing animator, you know, like doing drawings and stuff like that.
And that’s been downloaded or been viewed over a million times.
There’s another one, that let’s see which one is this? oh, try, try who, her story, like, it’s actually a photo of her, like using ConvertKit and that’s been downloaded 3000 times. It’d been viewed 900,000 times and you’re like, that’s some pretty good brand impressions.
Cause she’s actually just like browsing the home page of ConvertKit in the photo. And some imagining like thousands of times out there on the web people are using that photo. and those brand impressions for ConvertKit. And then the last thing or all of this gets packaged together is in the book and I’m a creator, you know, where we’re taking each thing and just using it everywhere that we can.
Cause I think a lot of like telling stories is expensive. When we think about the, all of your time, Henry’s time, the support from the team, the photographers, we hire the flights, you know, all of this stuff.
And so really the systems that you’ve designed have made it so that we can reuse it in so many places.
If we were just like, here’s a story it’s on our blog done next, The ROI is not there.
That’s why these flywheels do it efficiently, and then the scale and the reach to put it everywhere is where now we can afford to spend the money and time to tell stories that we’re really, really proud of.
Exactly. Exactly. And, further that mission of telling more stories and showing people how they can be a creator, what it means to be creator, and really elevate these incredible creators that are doing amazing work, and who have persisted.
There’s just so much to learn from them. I’m really proud that we’re telling those stories. I haven’t seen them in this way for creators like this. I haven’t seen it anywhere else. That’s really special, and the things those creators say to me about how it feels when we tell their story, what it means to them, how it propels them, and encourages them has also been such a gift.
Yeah. That’s amazing. That’s a perfect place to wrap up.
Where should people go to follow you personally and your writing, and also read and listen to all the stories that you’re telling?
Yeah. So you can follow me on Instagram, or TikTok, or Twitter. Isa Adney, I S A A D N E Y. You can also read, or watch, or listen to all of our amazing stories at convertkit.com/stories.
The website is gorgeous. It was designed by our creative director, Charli Prangley. It was also something I had in my head, probably for two and a half years. It’s alive and it is beautiful. So, go check it out.
Sounds good. Alright. Thank you so much.
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